In 1995, I had many conversations with Charity, a Professor CIE and my spiritual mentor. Several were on the Ten Commandments and God’s opinions of them. This one is on the one prohibiting the worship of graven images or idols.
Ralph: The second of the Ten Commandments is, “You shall not make yourselves a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and forth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments." [Exodus 20:4-6]
Charity: The Creator would have never said that. The Creator does not punish. The Creator has us to aid him. The Creator is Love and nothing else. Therefore The Creator does not care if you make anything that is an image.
Ralph: These are like statues, what they call idols.
Charity: Do you not have those now in your churches?
Ralph: (Picking up Russian picture on a block) This is a very common one in Russia, this type of picture. They have these in their churches all the time.
Charity: But this is not of The Creator.
Ralph: No, that is of Mary and the baby Jesus. But I'm saying that's a sample of the kind of art work that they have in the Russian churches we saw, walls and walls of them. Icons. They do this as a regular business.
Charity: The Creator does not care if you do anything like that. The Creator does not care if you make any kind of idols or anything else. The Creator is not a human being and therefore not prone to caring of an image or a picture.
Ralph: Not being a historian, I can't speak for sure about what they were doing in those days. I have the feeling we are talking about how there were lots of groups of people, the Hebrews we are talking about, and they had these statues of the various gods that they had in their region. They were worshiping these statues as ISIS and all the various Egyptian gods that they had statues of around the pyramids.
Charity: That was the time that we tried to take them away from worshiping ourselves, instead of The Creator.
Ralph: I think this is in response to the fact that most of the people at that time were worshiping these gods, god of the sun, gods of this and gods of that, which, as you say, is what they were representing. And so they said, "Don't worship any idols, I am the only one you should worship. I'm not an idol, I'm not a rock, I'm not a carved piece of wood.”
Charity: The Creator would not say that.
Ralph: So that's the second commandment, it says basically, "Do not worship any graven images" which is the usual phrase, which means a rock, a carved shape of some god, which is a common practice among the Egyptians
Charity: OK
Ralph: They were coming out of Egypt at this time.
Charity: We've answered that then.
Friday, June 20, 2008
Charity's Views on Homosexuality
One of the conversations I had in 1995 with Charity, a Professor CIE and my spiritual mentor, was about homosexuality. Here is the transcript of that conversation.
Charity: Homosexuality is not a mental illness. You have been a homosexual in your prior lives.
Ralph: We have a political battle about this all the time, about whether or not somebody is born homosexual or whether they become that way. Would you care to make any statement about why some people are innately attracted to a person of the same sex instead of the opposite sex?
Charity: Each human has to experience all avenues of everything. When you are going through your lives, the ones that are starting now or condemning the homosexuals will be homosexuals themselves.
Ralph: This will be one of their lifetimes, whether they choose it or not?
Charity: Of course
Ralph: Ten percent of the population are homosexual, if you add them up. In any culture, any group, any nation, about 10% prefer the same sex for their attraction. And they just happen to be the group who have the problem.
Charity: They don’t have a problem
Ralph: Well, we have the religious right who look in the Bible, and it clearly says in the Bible that man should not do that. God disapproves of that. It says so right there.
Charity: Show me where it says that.
Ralph: I'm not going to pull the Bible down because I'm not a religious writer but I’ve heard it quoted.
Charity: We have already stated –
Ralph: Man wrote it.
Charity: Right. The Creator does not care.
Ralph: In many books I have on Jesus’ teaching, people writing these manuals were writing to large groups, not to individuals, and, in large groups, homosexual behavior does not keep children being produced, so that is not good for increasing the work population. So they wouldn’t want that, since you wouldn’t have enough children to do all the jobs you have in an expanding economy. So its not good for the group. But for that 10% it’s fine.
Charity: It was written by man.
Ralph: Written by man, OK. We don’t have a God up there that hates homosexuals, is that what you are saying?
Charity: The Creator does not hate.
Ralph: Well, you can hear all these people on TV talking about what He doesn’t want.
Charity: It is what the humans want, and they use The Creator by stating that – they are always using Him
Ralph: They use him as a bully boy, somebody with a bat who is going to hit you if you don’t do what they want.
Charity: Why would The Creator design some humans with homosexuality and some that are not? Some are gifted in music and some are not. Why did The Creator not design all humans to be the same?
Ralph: He could have.
Charity: He could have if He had chosen to but that would have negated our responsibility.
Ralph: It would have been very boring; you wouldn’t have had much to do.
Charity: Yes, we’ve been busy.
Charity: Homosexuality is not a mental illness. You have been a homosexual in your prior lives.
Ralph: We have a political battle about this all the time, about whether or not somebody is born homosexual or whether they become that way. Would you care to make any statement about why some people are innately attracted to a person of the same sex instead of the opposite sex?
Charity: Each human has to experience all avenues of everything. When you are going through your lives, the ones that are starting now or condemning the homosexuals will be homosexuals themselves.
Ralph: This will be one of their lifetimes, whether they choose it or not?
Charity: Of course
Ralph: Ten percent of the population are homosexual, if you add them up. In any culture, any group, any nation, about 10% prefer the same sex for their attraction. And they just happen to be the group who have the problem.
Charity: They don’t have a problem
Ralph: Well, we have the religious right who look in the Bible, and it clearly says in the Bible that man should not do that. God disapproves of that. It says so right there.
Charity: Show me where it says that.
Ralph: I'm not going to pull the Bible down because I'm not a religious writer but I’ve heard it quoted.
Charity: We have already stated –
Ralph: Man wrote it.
Charity: Right. The Creator does not care.
Ralph: In many books I have on Jesus’ teaching, people writing these manuals were writing to large groups, not to individuals, and, in large groups, homosexual behavior does not keep children being produced, so that is not good for increasing the work population. So they wouldn’t want that, since you wouldn’t have enough children to do all the jobs you have in an expanding economy. So its not good for the group. But for that 10% it’s fine.
Charity: It was written by man.
Ralph: Written by man, OK. We don’t have a God up there that hates homosexuals, is that what you are saying?
Charity: The Creator does not hate.
Ralph: Well, you can hear all these people on TV talking about what He doesn’t want.
Charity: It is what the humans want, and they use The Creator by stating that – they are always using Him
Ralph: They use him as a bully boy, somebody with a bat who is going to hit you if you don’t do what they want.
Charity: Why would The Creator design some humans with homosexuality and some that are not? Some are gifted in music and some are not. Why did The Creator not design all humans to be the same?
Ralph: He could have.
Charity: He could have if He had chosen to but that would have negated our responsibility.
Ralph: It would have been very boring; you wouldn’t have had much to do.
Charity: Yes, we’ve been busy.
Charity's Views on Homelessness
One of the conversations I had in 1995 with Charity, a Professor CIE and my spiritual mentor, was about families who were homeless. Here is a transcript of that conversation.
Charity: Basically all you humans need to do is just to provide the basic survival instincts. If a child or parent in that situation that we have chosen for each one to be born into, all other matters is to leave it alone. That would include if the parents or their offspring become physically sick, whatever avenue of it could be, that’s our responsibility, our duties.
Ralph: Let me tell you about the Donahue show, where they interviewed several families who had been homeless. These were parents with children. The man lost his job, they didn’t have any money for rent, and they, one of them – mother, father and four or five children – lived in a van on the street.. This man had lost his job, he was a nice fellow, but he just ran out of money and they were evicted from the house. they lived in. That van parked on the street for at least a month. Now they have moved into one of the shelters that was giving them a home, and he could now get a job, so he was now on his way up. But they asked them if they were putting their children in jeopardy. They had no water, no sewer, they couldn’t take baths, they had no food, and yet they had their own relatives, their own parents, the grandparents that would have taken the children in temporarily. But this couple said, "No, we’re not going to ask for help. We will take care of our children." And that was a real conflict. I mean, is that taking care of their children when they are in that risk, when there was blood relatives that could have been called? They didn’t want to embarrass themselves by telling the relatives.
Charity: You have to remember that each one of the Essences was working in that situation. They had to be where they were at that time. Each Guardian was working where they were supposed to be. They were at that spot where they needed to be at. No human needed to interfere. They were where they were supposed to be, they were learning what they needed to be. Period.
Ralph: You don’t see that they made a mistake by not calling in for outside help that was physically available?
Charity: No.
Ralph: I have a hard time with that kind of a view of it, but that's your view. I wasn’t there, I didn’t have to make their choices. I'm just saying. I was not the one with the choice, they had to make that, and they did come through it, the kids were all alive and breathing so you can't argue with the results.
Charity: They needed to learn what they needed to learn.
Ralph: OK.
Charity: Would that the humans should not take away our responsibility. They were in the situation they needed to be before them. That was created for them.
Charity: Basically all you humans need to do is just to provide the basic survival instincts. If a child or parent in that situation that we have chosen for each one to be born into, all other matters is to leave it alone. That would include if the parents or their offspring become physically sick, whatever avenue of it could be, that’s our responsibility, our duties.
Ralph: Let me tell you about the Donahue show, where they interviewed several families who had been homeless. These were parents with children. The man lost his job, they didn’t have any money for rent, and they, one of them – mother, father and four or five children – lived in a van on the street.. This man had lost his job, he was a nice fellow, but he just ran out of money and they were evicted from the house. they lived in. That van parked on the street for at least a month. Now they have moved into one of the shelters that was giving them a home, and he could now get a job, so he was now on his way up. But they asked them if they were putting their children in jeopardy. They had no water, no sewer, they couldn’t take baths, they had no food, and yet they had their own relatives, their own parents, the grandparents that would have taken the children in temporarily. But this couple said, "No, we’re not going to ask for help. We will take care of our children." And that was a real conflict. I mean, is that taking care of their children when they are in that risk, when there was blood relatives that could have been called? They didn’t want to embarrass themselves by telling the relatives.
Charity: You have to remember that each one of the Essences was working in that situation. They had to be where they were at that time. Each Guardian was working where they were supposed to be. They were at that spot where they needed to be at. No human needed to interfere. They were where they were supposed to be, they were learning what they needed to be. Period.
Ralph: You don’t see that they made a mistake by not calling in for outside help that was physically available?
Charity: No.
Ralph: I have a hard time with that kind of a view of it, but that's your view. I wasn’t there, I didn’t have to make their choices. I'm just saying. I was not the one with the choice, they had to make that, and they did come through it, the kids were all alive and breathing so you can't argue with the results.
Charity: They needed to learn what they needed to learn.
Ralph: OK.
Charity: Would that the humans should not take away our responsibility. They were in the situation they needed to be before them. That was created for them.
Charity's Views on Adolph Hitler
In 1995, I had a number of recorded conversations with Charity, a Professor CIE and my spiritual mentor. Here is one about the fate of Adolph Hitler, who had an Essence which was so badly turned that it went to stay for all eternity in Charity’s special rehabilitation center.
Charity: If we understand correctly, with Mr. Booth who destroyed Mr. Lincoln, Mr. Booth’s Essence was not only turned, but was completely destructive. There was no hope of rehabilitation.
Ralph: Hopeless, like Hitler.
Charity: Basically, yes. For assassinations of this caliber, most of the Essences that use the body to exact revenge are turned Essences or baby Essences who do not like their assignments. Or they wish to some matter of a destruction mode that the Essence sees as a way of gaining attention from ourselves to the matter of exercising their Free Will. And they also have the falsehood that they will come up and be one of ourselves, and not have to come back and be incarnated into another lifetime again. They have a mistaken notion that they have done something that is pleasing in our sight.
Ralph: Is there any way they can get reassigned or promoted?
Charity: No, nothing can happen. On the avenue of the human being, the human being is connected to the Essence. Therefore the interconnection continues on. If the human carcass therefore ceases, then the Essence will be assigned to another. That is the only way a human can be walking and talking and breathing and existing.
Ralph: Now we do have individuals who appear to be as alienated as possible from The Creator, people like Adolph Hitler, for example.
Charity: He is in our special school.
Ralph: Right. They are on the earth as alienated as possible as anybody could be from The Creator’s intentions and desires and plans as anybody.
Charity: The Creator does not make mistakes.
Ralph: They have chosen to be going in the opposite direction.
Charity: The Essence has chosen, yes.
Ralph: I'm just wondering if they still have the same connection?
Charity: Yes.
Ralph: Do they break the connection?
Charity: No.
Ralph: What do they do as a result of their choice of Free Will to go in another direction? Do they create some kind of change in their energy?
Charity: There are no changes. The flow is there.
Ralph: So it is not as if when they get so rebellious – like a leg gets so diseased it is going to kill the body, we cut it off. You don’t have a way of cutting off an Essence who has become so diseased.
C; No, but we have our ways of having a more of a – on your avenue regarding your leg, more of the avenue of bringing in extra energy on that part of it. Because with the Essence of that human that you spoke of, and the Free Will choice, it is in our school and it will be there until the end of time.
Ralph: As long as you care to keep it?
Charity: It will not contaminate. It will stay where it is at. It has its system going, but we have the extra added energy onto it, to basically bypass it so it can continue on.
Charity: If we understand correctly, with Mr. Booth who destroyed Mr. Lincoln, Mr. Booth’s Essence was not only turned, but was completely destructive. There was no hope of rehabilitation.
Ralph: Hopeless, like Hitler.
Charity: Basically, yes. For assassinations of this caliber, most of the Essences that use the body to exact revenge are turned Essences or baby Essences who do not like their assignments. Or they wish to some matter of a destruction mode that the Essence sees as a way of gaining attention from ourselves to the matter of exercising their Free Will. And they also have the falsehood that they will come up and be one of ourselves, and not have to come back and be incarnated into another lifetime again. They have a mistaken notion that they have done something that is pleasing in our sight.
Ralph: Is there any way they can get reassigned or promoted?
Charity: No, nothing can happen. On the avenue of the human being, the human being is connected to the Essence. Therefore the interconnection continues on. If the human carcass therefore ceases, then the Essence will be assigned to another. That is the only way a human can be walking and talking and breathing and existing.
Ralph: Now we do have individuals who appear to be as alienated as possible from The Creator, people like Adolph Hitler, for example.
Charity: He is in our special school.
Ralph: Right. They are on the earth as alienated as possible as anybody could be from The Creator’s intentions and desires and plans as anybody.
Charity: The Creator does not make mistakes.
Ralph: They have chosen to be going in the opposite direction.
Charity: The Essence has chosen, yes.
Ralph: I'm just wondering if they still have the same connection?
Charity: Yes.
Ralph: Do they break the connection?
Charity: No.
Ralph: What do they do as a result of their choice of Free Will to go in another direction? Do they create some kind of change in their energy?
Charity: There are no changes. The flow is there.
Ralph: So it is not as if when they get so rebellious – like a leg gets so diseased it is going to kill the body, we cut it off. You don’t have a way of cutting off an Essence who has become so diseased.
C; No, but we have our ways of having a more of a – on your avenue regarding your leg, more of the avenue of bringing in extra energy on that part of it. Because with the Essence of that human that you spoke of, and the Free Will choice, it is in our school and it will be there until the end of time.
Ralph: As long as you care to keep it?
Charity: It will not contaminate. It will stay where it is at. It has its system going, but we have the extra added energy onto it, to basically bypass it so it can continue on.
Thursday, June 19, 2008
Charity's Views on Heaven
During my discussions in 1995 with Charity, a Professor CIE and my spiritual mentor, we talked about what our culture has been taught about heaven, from what I learned in church as a son of a Presbyterian preacher. She had taught me that there are two “realms”, one of which I called Thoughtspace and one Physicalspace. Thoughtspace is where the CIE and The Creator reside full-time, and where they train Essences prior to their reincarnating into new physical bodies. Those bodies then exist in Physicalspace, which has the four dimensions, three physical ones and time. It is what many people call the “real world.”
Charity: Anything that will make the humans feel more comfortable in their longing and finding a way of communicating with their Essences is fine with The Creator. The Creator does not worry about how to come about with spiritual understanding. Or with your communication with your Essence.
Ralph: It's interesting reading some of these history of philosophy books. Because there are even quotes in there from old literature that indicate that the God the Hebrews were worshiping really wasn't the only God, He also had a mother who said, "Sonny boy, you're not the only one around here, so quit bragging," basically. Which is kind of funny. There appeared to be dialogue because they had the image of God as a Jealous God, who resented worship of Zeus, etc. so that he wanted them to recognize him as the only God. They said that he had a mother who created him. That is a little confusing to me. I'm just pointing this out these are some of the things that are in the old literature. So we have a concept of a very human, emotional God who is resentful if you don't put him, and nobody else, up on the pedestal. That's like, “I'm the King.” It's a temporary position for anybody. And they are seen in that way, that there is a throne in Heaven where God is.
Charity: There is no "place" where The Creator is sitting. The Creator is all around. The Creator is all.
Ralph: This is why –
Charity: There is another avenue that you humans have also used. I understand it is called "The Gates of Heaven."
Ralph: The Pearly Gates of Heaven with St. Peter standing there to check you in.
Charity: Which makes no avenue of an understanding unto ourselves when we are all around. There is not one place where The Creator stays.
Ralph: Well, it looks real nice in the movies, when they make it that way. Much easier to put it into the movies that way. It is handy for that purpose.
Charity: But what you humans call a physical body, you want a physical carcass. That's not going to happen.
Ralph: They don't see anything else as being possible.
Charity: We can understand that, as they don't understand that we have everything here. The energy level is throughout where you are standing now. You have Faith and Hope right here.
Ralph: But they are also saying this is in heaven, not on this Earth, some place that has no limits for all the bodies that will have to be there. As you mentioned, how many incarnation bodies do you want? If you put them all there, you would have to have an infinite space.
Charity: Correct.
Ralph: I'm not sure where that is. What planet are you talking about?
Charity: Wait a moment, now. You are assuming that you humans are going to be staying on this globe. Correct?
Ralph: No, heaven, that's not on this globe. There is some place called heaven that they have laid out that we will be living – that's again part of it. Where everything is wonderful, and we can have all we want to eat, and don't have to pay for groceries, and don't have to pay PG&E for electricity. How idealistic can life be? Everything's free. You don't have to go to work every day.
Charity: First of all, heaven is not there.
Ralph: That is the image that is laid out for us.
Ralph: I just remember we had the history of our Protestant church. There was this great debate about if you behaved in a noble way, you then would end up in a positive state after you died, beloved by God, and that was what everybody wanted to do. OK? Your behavior now would gauge where you went after you died, either heaven or hell. That’s the view. And it has been for two thousand years. Well, that is what people were given as a reward/punishment mechanism. So that is why they laid down, "if you do these things." The problem came about, with this question of predestination, that some of us were going to end up on God’s right hand, and that was already decided when we were born. OK, and some of us were going to end up in hell. That’s all we got. We don’t have any more than one lifetime. Well, at birth some were born fated to go to hell, and some were born fated to go to heaven. Now, if you took the view that those fated to go to heaven would, by their very nature, do the nice things that society approved of, like taking care of your children and always paying your rent, and not beating up your wife. Then that showed that you had the character of those who were going to go to heaven. Naturally, everyone wanted to be considered one of those who were going to go to heaven. Now the Catholic church at that time recognized that nobody behaved well all the time and so, if you did something that wasn’t quite up to snuff to go to heaven, they would let you pay money to the church and buy what they called an indulgence. Which meant the priest forgave you for your sin for your contribution.
Charity: Monetary.
Ralph: Right, a major source of income for the churches. And that then put you back in the track of going to heaven. Now, they were selling those indulgences in such volume that obviously only the rich people could afford to do it continually, and that is one of the things Luther got very upset about, being a priest in the Catholic church at the time. "That is wrong, we shouldn’t do that. If you are fated to go to heaven, you will go to heaven, you won't get there by paying indulgences to the priest." Because what they were saying was that if you do all the good things, that proves that you belong in heaven, so, even if you were a nasty guy headed for hell, if you could fake it long enough and play the game of being a good guy, you will sneak your way into heaven. So what is it, is it your behavior during your life that gets you into heaven, or is it your core nature that you were bound for heaven regardless of what you did? And that was a big issue for a long time.
Charity: Do you want us to answer that question?
Ralph: I don’t know that there is an answer from your department. You have to see that then is what develops do-gooders, as we say. That by doing all these good things that our society rewards us for, we are going to earn our place in heaven. And I think you have to recognize that is the culture of the Western, European, English and American. That’s been going on for the last three or four centuries with that argument being made that clearly. Luther was the one who said, "Hey, you can’t buy your way into heaven." And now you are throwing a whole monkey wrench into that whole concept and saying they are both wrong. I know that, but you have to understand that is how we are raised in this culture, subtly, and what do our politicians do to get voted in? They say, “I’ve got you this service”, and “We got all these things”, and “I’ve protected this and you’ve got protection from everything."
Charity: But that’s all part of the Great Deception. You’ve got to realize this.
Ralph: Now, which aspect?
Charity: Your do-gooding aspect. First of all your aspect of believing that there is a heaven and a hell, when there is no avenue on that aspect anyway.
Ralph: OK, so there is no place to head for in the first place.
Charity: That is correct.
Ralph: You are all going to get to the same place regardless of how you behaved on Earth. It isn’t going to get you to Door A versus Door B.
Charity: No, there are no doors.
Ralph: But what I am saying is that the gate at heaven is a description of what we will meet, with St. Peter standing there to grade us.
Charity: Who is St. Peter?
Ralph: St. Peter was Peter the disciple that was the first Bishop of the Christian Church, one of Christ’s students. He then was, according to the Bible, given the responsibility for being the head of the church.
Charity: Of course it is. But for you humans, as we stated, it is part of the Great Deception that we have done.
Ralph: While we are looking at that book on reincarnation, going through all the theoretical – again, the same sort – "we have this thing here that sort of resides within the body and it doesn’t get killed when the body gets killed”. So we sort of do something with it, it goes to heaven or hell, you know. Wow.
Charity: There is no heaven or hell. Just as you’ve stated. The energy force is where, as we have connoted it as Thoughtspace, all Essences, all of the CIE reside. The term hell could be what you humans are experiencing now. That’s your avenue. An energy is the one that runs the universe.
Ralph: Let’s go onto the next one, then. There was one that said, “When we die, we go to a place called heaven to speak to God." Now that sounds very pleasant.
Charity: We are sorry.
Ralph: To see the Teachers.
Charity: To getting an introduction to every aspect.
Ralph: Well, I do. When I die, it is where Michael will be, in the Afterworld, wherever your soul goes.
Charity: There is no soul, there is an Essence.
Ralph: Well, that’s in the old tradition you either went to heaven or to hell, and, if you are a Catholic, you have to go to Purgatory first, which is temporary housing.
Charity: Which you will have to buy yourself out of that.
Ralph: That has been the way it was, yes.
Charity: Again, it is monetary values.
Ralph: Maybe you can explain to me how Martin Luther did when he was challenging the Catholic Church which was selling indulgences like that. You would buy your ticket to make sure you went to heaven. They raised a lot of money that way, because everybody wanted to go to heaven. They had this big battle, I remember my father telling me about, that certain people from the time they were born were ordained to go to heaven. They would be the good people on earth, and all their activities would be spiritually advanced, shall we say. And you knew that because their behavior was so upright and honorable. They were the ones who were going to go to heaven. That was not their choice, that was their assignment. They were issued that set of orders at birth, OK? So all during their life they would be the good people who helped everybody out, and did all the kind things in the world, OK? Then at the end, they would go to heaven. Then the question came, "Well, if I am not appointed that way, but I choose to behave that way all during my life, will that earn me the ticket to go to heaven? Why not? After all, l've done all the same things all these other people did, so I should get rewarded. I may not have been designated to begin with, but I choose to be a nice guy so doesn’t that get me into heaven, too?" That battle went on – I remember my dad talking about that as a big intellectual debate that, if you weren’t chosen to go to heaven, did good deeds earn your way into heaven?
Charity: Can we see the tickets?
Ralph: I never saw the tickets. Just it was obvious some people were going to go there, and those people you would know were going to go there, because they did good things. They didn’t have to choose; that was the only thing they could do. They were good robots.
Charity: We haven’t seen this heaven.
Ralph: You haven’t seen heaven?
Charity: No.
Ralph: I guess they didn’t get taken to the right place, then.
Charity: We would like to see the tickets, to see what it says on them.
Ralph: If you could work your way into heaven, if you weren’t one of the lucky ones to be assigned there at birth.
Charity: That is not accurate. There is no heaven, so you cannot go into that.
Ralph: So you get all the rascals as well as all the wonderful folks.
Charity: We get all.
Ralph: You get everything, every single one of them.
Charity: All.
Ralph: The only thing we call less than heaven that we call hell would be your special school for those you don’t want to reincarnate. But they are still in the same area, but their movements is restricted.
Charity: Very much so.
Ralph: That’s fine, that’s fine. But they are not being whipped, and in the middle of flames, and having you torture them, which is our image of hell.
Charity: No, we have a – if you want an image, there is a guard that is assigned to that area. If your body was to live forever, then your body would have never grown. It would not have the gray hair, you would not be as tall, you would not be fully grown, you would still be a baby. What good is a human body that does not cease?
Ralph: That is a philosophical question about which we will have long debates. I think what we need to see is a replacement. We always think of the body as having to stay forever. We are talking about living forever, so we mix up the body and living as the same thing. That is where the misconception is. We talk about there being a soul which is supposed to go to heaven. Or hell. It just doesn’t do anything else after that, you see. It just sits and plays the harp and has wings, and listens to music in heaven, doesn’t do much.
Charity: It must be a very big place – heaven.
Ralph: Well, it is like when I took my first daughter up in an airplane, above the clouds. She looked out, the first time she had been above the clouds, "Is this where heaven is?" I really couldn’t tell her. How would I know? It might be. But that is the concept we talk about when we say life is so precious and should continue on, and with this the Essence and the Emotional Self as the life. And we can’t stop them from continuing on, no matter what we do.
Charity: Correct. The physical body is a carcass. We can have you humans be chairs.
Ralph: I wonder what civilization would be like if all humans were chairs?
Charity: Nothing.
Charity: Anything that will make the humans feel more comfortable in their longing and finding a way of communicating with their Essences is fine with The Creator. The Creator does not worry about how to come about with spiritual understanding. Or with your communication with your Essence.
Ralph: It's interesting reading some of these history of philosophy books. Because there are even quotes in there from old literature that indicate that the God the Hebrews were worshiping really wasn't the only God, He also had a mother who said, "Sonny boy, you're not the only one around here, so quit bragging," basically. Which is kind of funny. There appeared to be dialogue because they had the image of God as a Jealous God, who resented worship of Zeus, etc. so that he wanted them to recognize him as the only God. They said that he had a mother who created him. That is a little confusing to me. I'm just pointing this out these are some of the things that are in the old literature. So we have a concept of a very human, emotional God who is resentful if you don't put him, and nobody else, up on the pedestal. That's like, “I'm the King.” It's a temporary position for anybody. And they are seen in that way, that there is a throne in Heaven where God is.
Charity: There is no "place" where The Creator is sitting. The Creator is all around. The Creator is all.
Ralph: This is why –
Charity: There is another avenue that you humans have also used. I understand it is called "The Gates of Heaven."
Ralph: The Pearly Gates of Heaven with St. Peter standing there to check you in.
Charity: Which makes no avenue of an understanding unto ourselves when we are all around. There is not one place where The Creator stays.
Ralph: Well, it looks real nice in the movies, when they make it that way. Much easier to put it into the movies that way. It is handy for that purpose.
Charity: But what you humans call a physical body, you want a physical carcass. That's not going to happen.
Ralph: They don't see anything else as being possible.
Charity: We can understand that, as they don't understand that we have everything here. The energy level is throughout where you are standing now. You have Faith and Hope right here.
Ralph: But they are also saying this is in heaven, not on this Earth, some place that has no limits for all the bodies that will have to be there. As you mentioned, how many incarnation bodies do you want? If you put them all there, you would have to have an infinite space.
Charity: Correct.
Ralph: I'm not sure where that is. What planet are you talking about?
Charity: Wait a moment, now. You are assuming that you humans are going to be staying on this globe. Correct?
Ralph: No, heaven, that's not on this globe. There is some place called heaven that they have laid out that we will be living – that's again part of it. Where everything is wonderful, and we can have all we want to eat, and don't have to pay for groceries, and don't have to pay PG&E for electricity. How idealistic can life be? Everything's free. You don't have to go to work every day.
Charity: First of all, heaven is not there.
Ralph: That is the image that is laid out for us.
Ralph: I just remember we had the history of our Protestant church. There was this great debate about if you behaved in a noble way, you then would end up in a positive state after you died, beloved by God, and that was what everybody wanted to do. OK? Your behavior now would gauge where you went after you died, either heaven or hell. That’s the view. And it has been for two thousand years. Well, that is what people were given as a reward/punishment mechanism. So that is why they laid down, "if you do these things." The problem came about, with this question of predestination, that some of us were going to end up on God’s right hand, and that was already decided when we were born. OK, and some of us were going to end up in hell. That’s all we got. We don’t have any more than one lifetime. Well, at birth some were born fated to go to hell, and some were born fated to go to heaven. Now, if you took the view that those fated to go to heaven would, by their very nature, do the nice things that society approved of, like taking care of your children and always paying your rent, and not beating up your wife. Then that showed that you had the character of those who were going to go to heaven. Naturally, everyone wanted to be considered one of those who were going to go to heaven. Now the Catholic church at that time recognized that nobody behaved well all the time and so, if you did something that wasn’t quite up to snuff to go to heaven, they would let you pay money to the church and buy what they called an indulgence. Which meant the priest forgave you for your sin for your contribution.
Charity: Monetary.
Ralph: Right, a major source of income for the churches. And that then put you back in the track of going to heaven. Now, they were selling those indulgences in such volume that obviously only the rich people could afford to do it continually, and that is one of the things Luther got very upset about, being a priest in the Catholic church at the time. "That is wrong, we shouldn’t do that. If you are fated to go to heaven, you will go to heaven, you won't get there by paying indulgences to the priest." Because what they were saying was that if you do all the good things, that proves that you belong in heaven, so, even if you were a nasty guy headed for hell, if you could fake it long enough and play the game of being a good guy, you will sneak your way into heaven. So what is it, is it your behavior during your life that gets you into heaven, or is it your core nature that you were bound for heaven regardless of what you did? And that was a big issue for a long time.
Charity: Do you want us to answer that question?
Ralph: I don’t know that there is an answer from your department. You have to see that then is what develops do-gooders, as we say. That by doing all these good things that our society rewards us for, we are going to earn our place in heaven. And I think you have to recognize that is the culture of the Western, European, English and American. That’s been going on for the last three or four centuries with that argument being made that clearly. Luther was the one who said, "Hey, you can’t buy your way into heaven." And now you are throwing a whole monkey wrench into that whole concept and saying they are both wrong. I know that, but you have to understand that is how we are raised in this culture, subtly, and what do our politicians do to get voted in? They say, “I’ve got you this service”, and “We got all these things”, and “I’ve protected this and you’ve got protection from everything."
Charity: But that’s all part of the Great Deception. You’ve got to realize this.
Ralph: Now, which aspect?
Charity: Your do-gooding aspect. First of all your aspect of believing that there is a heaven and a hell, when there is no avenue on that aspect anyway.
Ralph: OK, so there is no place to head for in the first place.
Charity: That is correct.
Ralph: You are all going to get to the same place regardless of how you behaved on Earth. It isn’t going to get you to Door A versus Door B.
Charity: No, there are no doors.
Ralph: But what I am saying is that the gate at heaven is a description of what we will meet, with St. Peter standing there to grade us.
Charity: Who is St. Peter?
Ralph: St. Peter was Peter the disciple that was the first Bishop of the Christian Church, one of Christ’s students. He then was, according to the Bible, given the responsibility for being the head of the church.
Charity: Of course it is. But for you humans, as we stated, it is part of the Great Deception that we have done.
Ralph: While we are looking at that book on reincarnation, going through all the theoretical – again, the same sort – "we have this thing here that sort of resides within the body and it doesn’t get killed when the body gets killed”. So we sort of do something with it, it goes to heaven or hell, you know. Wow.
Charity: There is no heaven or hell. Just as you’ve stated. The energy force is where, as we have connoted it as Thoughtspace, all Essences, all of the CIE reside. The term hell could be what you humans are experiencing now. That’s your avenue. An energy is the one that runs the universe.
Ralph: Let’s go onto the next one, then. There was one that said, “When we die, we go to a place called heaven to speak to God." Now that sounds very pleasant.
Charity: We are sorry.
Ralph: To see the Teachers.
Charity: To getting an introduction to every aspect.
Ralph: Well, I do. When I die, it is where Michael will be, in the Afterworld, wherever your soul goes.
Charity: There is no soul, there is an Essence.
Ralph: Well, that’s in the old tradition you either went to heaven or to hell, and, if you are a Catholic, you have to go to Purgatory first, which is temporary housing.
Charity: Which you will have to buy yourself out of that.
Ralph: That has been the way it was, yes.
Charity: Again, it is monetary values.
Ralph: Maybe you can explain to me how Martin Luther did when he was challenging the Catholic Church which was selling indulgences like that. You would buy your ticket to make sure you went to heaven. They raised a lot of money that way, because everybody wanted to go to heaven. They had this big battle, I remember my father telling me about, that certain people from the time they were born were ordained to go to heaven. They would be the good people on earth, and all their activities would be spiritually advanced, shall we say. And you knew that because their behavior was so upright and honorable. They were the ones who were going to go to heaven. That was not their choice, that was their assignment. They were issued that set of orders at birth, OK? So all during their life they would be the good people who helped everybody out, and did all the kind things in the world, OK? Then at the end, they would go to heaven. Then the question came, "Well, if I am not appointed that way, but I choose to behave that way all during my life, will that earn me the ticket to go to heaven? Why not? After all, l've done all the same things all these other people did, so I should get rewarded. I may not have been designated to begin with, but I choose to be a nice guy so doesn’t that get me into heaven, too?" That battle went on – I remember my dad talking about that as a big intellectual debate that, if you weren’t chosen to go to heaven, did good deeds earn your way into heaven?
Charity: Can we see the tickets?
Ralph: I never saw the tickets. Just it was obvious some people were going to go there, and those people you would know were going to go there, because they did good things. They didn’t have to choose; that was the only thing they could do. They were good robots.
Charity: We haven’t seen this heaven.
Ralph: You haven’t seen heaven?
Charity: No.
Ralph: I guess they didn’t get taken to the right place, then.
Charity: We would like to see the tickets, to see what it says on them.
Ralph: If you could work your way into heaven, if you weren’t one of the lucky ones to be assigned there at birth.
Charity: That is not accurate. There is no heaven, so you cannot go into that.
Ralph: So you get all the rascals as well as all the wonderful folks.
Charity: We get all.
Ralph: You get everything, every single one of them.
Charity: All.
Ralph: The only thing we call less than heaven that we call hell would be your special school for those you don’t want to reincarnate. But they are still in the same area, but their movements is restricted.
Charity: Very much so.
Ralph: That’s fine, that’s fine. But they are not being whipped, and in the middle of flames, and having you torture them, which is our image of hell.
Charity: No, we have a – if you want an image, there is a guard that is assigned to that area. If your body was to live forever, then your body would have never grown. It would not have the gray hair, you would not be as tall, you would not be fully grown, you would still be a baby. What good is a human body that does not cease?
Ralph: That is a philosophical question about which we will have long debates. I think what we need to see is a replacement. We always think of the body as having to stay forever. We are talking about living forever, so we mix up the body and living as the same thing. That is where the misconception is. We talk about there being a soul which is supposed to go to heaven. Or hell. It just doesn’t do anything else after that, you see. It just sits and plays the harp and has wings, and listens to music in heaven, doesn’t do much.
Charity: It must be a very big place – heaven.
Ralph: Well, it is like when I took my first daughter up in an airplane, above the clouds. She looked out, the first time she had been above the clouds, "Is this where heaven is?" I really couldn’t tell her. How would I know? It might be. But that is the concept we talk about when we say life is so precious and should continue on, and with this the Essence and the Emotional Self as the life. And we can’t stop them from continuing on, no matter what we do.
Charity: Correct. The physical body is a carcass. We can have you humans be chairs.
Ralph: I wonder what civilization would be like if all humans were chairs?
Charity: Nothing.
Charity's Views on Talking to the CIE
During one of my conversations in 1995 with Charity, a Professor CIE and my spiritual mentor, we discussed the ways the Essences and the CIE can communicate directly to us humans. Here is the transcript of that conversation.
Ralph: Maybe we could talk about various ways of listening. I have an example with Gene this afternoon. As you know, he has not been able to comprehend an Essence directly, and he asked me whether or not the CIE could talk through somebody besides Marie. I said they had indicated it was possible and I had had an example with Elise. Well, whom he meant was his wife. He had talked with her after the session with Marie and tried to inform her of what he was going through so she would know what was happening to him. She has always been a spiritually attuned lady. So they were in the car together, and he was explaining what had happened between him and Marie that had caused a freeze in communication and, without him explaining enough so that someone could intellectually analyze it, she came right out with a statement sounding very much like what I am used to hearing from you folks about other people. "Basically, she was just testing you out." It was the kind of analysis which left him wondering who was talking through his wife. Because physically, she didn’t know enough about it to have come out with an intellectual analysis of the situation. It sounded like what I hear Becky talking about or you talking about these kind of situations. So, do you have any comments? Were you using his own mate to get around his own barrier?
Charity: You are most correct.
Ralph: So what would you – how would you explain who was doing what in that situation?
Charity: That was his Guardian that was bringing forth the information. But the Guardian was using the vocal cords of his mate. Just as we have used others.
Ralph: OK, so Ruth [Spiritual Guardian for both Gene and myself] was busy going through his mate because he would be listening to her as it happens. Well, he was quite impressed. He still hasn’t gotten a direct internal communication he can –
Charity: That is because he is still in the mode of the scientific reality. He has not chosen to believe fully what is inside of him. He is not trusting, therefore he has closed, it is very hard for him to open up.
Ralph: He admits repeatedly he is in a big hurry.
Charity: Right
Ralph: And when you are in a big hurry, it blocks it.
Charity: Of course, it will always block it
Ralph: OK, but also the Essence has to put out a message to follow.
Charity: Of course.
Ralph: I'm just thinking about types of messages other than what we have already mentioned.
Charity: Well, the Essence has many messages all the time for every one of its charges, and each message is varied for each charge. One avenue is needing to watch a TV program. Because the Guardian and the Essence are so close together, it could be the Guardian is feeding to the Essence that the charge should drop this job and go to this other one. It could be matters of moving the house. It is different avenues of different things.
Ralph: Now let me just ask about my moving from Santa Cruz. That involved a lot of different people taking certain actions that I had to respond to.
Charity: And we know how well you respond to certain avenues.
Ralph: I'm just trying to clarify for the records, if it makes a difference how much the Essence does, versus the rest of the CIE.
Charity: Because of what you are destined for, your situation was a little different. We have taken over the aspect of yourself. Ruth is there but she is busy with other avenues, with others. Because you are part of what is going to happen, we have had to take over and go on the avenue of what the Essence does and what the CIE does, you have to remember we are not hierarchical.
Ralph: We are trying to talk about the Essence here, so I'm just trying to narrow down what the Essence does.
Charity: That’s very difficult.
Ralph: Is it possible to separate it out?
Charity: It’s difficult. If you go to the last chapter of the manuscript that was just finished, it points out what the Essence is involved with.
Ralph: But moving out of town wasn’t one of them.
Charity: It was not. But we are stating that it is an avenue of Michael [my Essence] and the Guardian [Ruth].
Ralph: So there it is a matter of teamwork where the Essence is passing the communications on that might be engendered by one of the CIE, who's got the plan laid out and he is like an agent. He is a local agent.
Charity: Right.
Ralph: In charge to get that person moving, and someone else is the agent to get that person to move.
Charity: Right. What happens on it – you need to meet this human being for a reason, you need to discuss certain matters, whatever it is the situation for yourself is important that the Essence directs that information to yourself. There are different avenues. The Essence talks to you. And each human being is too different from each other to give a broad description.
Ralph: Maybe we could talk about various ways of listening. I have an example with Gene this afternoon. As you know, he has not been able to comprehend an Essence directly, and he asked me whether or not the CIE could talk through somebody besides Marie. I said they had indicated it was possible and I had had an example with Elise. Well, whom he meant was his wife. He had talked with her after the session with Marie and tried to inform her of what he was going through so she would know what was happening to him. She has always been a spiritually attuned lady. So they were in the car together, and he was explaining what had happened between him and Marie that had caused a freeze in communication and, without him explaining enough so that someone could intellectually analyze it, she came right out with a statement sounding very much like what I am used to hearing from you folks about other people. "Basically, she was just testing you out." It was the kind of analysis which left him wondering who was talking through his wife. Because physically, she didn’t know enough about it to have come out with an intellectual analysis of the situation. It sounded like what I hear Becky talking about or you talking about these kind of situations. So, do you have any comments? Were you using his own mate to get around his own barrier?
Charity: You are most correct.
Ralph: So what would you – how would you explain who was doing what in that situation?
Charity: That was his Guardian that was bringing forth the information. But the Guardian was using the vocal cords of his mate. Just as we have used others.
Ralph: OK, so Ruth [Spiritual Guardian for both Gene and myself] was busy going through his mate because he would be listening to her as it happens. Well, he was quite impressed. He still hasn’t gotten a direct internal communication he can –
Charity: That is because he is still in the mode of the scientific reality. He has not chosen to believe fully what is inside of him. He is not trusting, therefore he has closed, it is very hard for him to open up.
Ralph: He admits repeatedly he is in a big hurry.
Charity: Right
Ralph: And when you are in a big hurry, it blocks it.
Charity: Of course, it will always block it
Ralph: OK, but also the Essence has to put out a message to follow.
Charity: Of course.
Ralph: I'm just thinking about types of messages other than what we have already mentioned.
Charity: Well, the Essence has many messages all the time for every one of its charges, and each message is varied for each charge. One avenue is needing to watch a TV program. Because the Guardian and the Essence are so close together, it could be the Guardian is feeding to the Essence that the charge should drop this job and go to this other one. It could be matters of moving the house. It is different avenues of different things.
Ralph: Now let me just ask about my moving from Santa Cruz. That involved a lot of different people taking certain actions that I had to respond to.
Charity: And we know how well you respond to certain avenues.
Ralph: I'm just trying to clarify for the records, if it makes a difference how much the Essence does, versus the rest of the CIE.
Charity: Because of what you are destined for, your situation was a little different. We have taken over the aspect of yourself. Ruth is there but she is busy with other avenues, with others. Because you are part of what is going to happen, we have had to take over and go on the avenue of what the Essence does and what the CIE does, you have to remember we are not hierarchical.
Ralph: We are trying to talk about the Essence here, so I'm just trying to narrow down what the Essence does.
Charity: That’s very difficult.
Ralph: Is it possible to separate it out?
Charity: It’s difficult. If you go to the last chapter of the manuscript that was just finished, it points out what the Essence is involved with.
Ralph: But moving out of town wasn’t one of them.
Charity: It was not. But we are stating that it is an avenue of Michael [my Essence] and the Guardian [Ruth].
Ralph: So there it is a matter of teamwork where the Essence is passing the communications on that might be engendered by one of the CIE, who's got the plan laid out and he is like an agent. He is a local agent.
Charity: Right.
Ralph: In charge to get that person moving, and someone else is the agent to get that person to move.
Charity: Right. What happens on it – you need to meet this human being for a reason, you need to discuss certain matters, whatever it is the situation for yourself is important that the Essence directs that information to yourself. There are different avenues. The Essence talks to you. And each human being is too different from each other to give a broad description.
Hope's Views on the Death of a Person with MPD
During my discussions with the CIE in 1995, one time I discussed with Hope, a Spiritual Teacher CIE, what would happen in the case of the sudden death (the CIE use the term “cease to exist”) of a patient like Marie. She had gone through therapy with me so that the Original Personality could integrate with all of her alter-personalities. This I call psychological integration She was then operating in society with all her alters integrated, and her Original Personality (a.k.a. Emotional Self or Kanjou) in charge, and a still dissociated Essence/ISH named Becky (a.k.a. Risei or Intellectual Self). I wondered what would happen at the time of death to the dissociated nature of the relationship between Marie and Becky. Here is how Hope answered my question.
Ralph: I’ve got one little question. In Marie’s case, we have an Essence, Becky, still separated from Marie. Now, if there was to be a sudden death of her, unplanned of course, and they were not yet reintegrated according to plan, what happens?
Hope: When death is imminent, it would be that Becky and Marie would be joined automatically.
Ralph: That’s what I wondered, because they have to be united for the next lifetime, and I was just – they haven’t gone through any kind of a bonding yet.
Hope: But it would happen immediately. But there is no plan for that.
Ralph: I understand, but I was just thinking theoretically, if you have people who die dissociated .
Hope: It would happen in a matter of just as the body was drawing its last breath.
Ralph: They would be leaving together, so then they could start again as a bonded unit.
Hope: Just as she took her first breath as they entered the body, then the Essence came in at that point in time, and that’s the way the Essence and the personality would become one again.
Ralph: Now, in your school, are they one or do you have two different classes going on? That is sort of separating one and two, but are the Essence or, as the Japanese say, the Risei, and the Kanjou separate?
Hope: The Emotional Self does not exist. The Emotional Self’s body is gone.
Ralph: Whoa, let me get my theory straight then.
Hope: You were talking about the training that Becky has been doing.
Ralph: Let me say again, using English, I’m limited. But if you use the Japanese words, Kanjou is Marie, which we don’t have an English word for.
Hope: Right.
Ralph: And she is the Emotional Part of the package that was born. And Becky is the Risei, the Intellectual part of the package that was born. OK. In ordinary circumstances, they are all one, but now, when they finish this life, under ordinary circumstances, without dissociation, who do you have available to teach?
Hope: We have Becky, and we have the fragment that is Marie.
Ralph: OK, so they start as two different fragments, at two different points in the past.
Hope: Right, but we have a fragment. It is a fragment, it is not an Essence. A fragment would be put on the corner shelf, and Becky is over here getting her instructions. And then when a new body is found, they go back in together.
Ralph: So do you have to conduct any teaching for the fragment that is now Marie?
Hope: No. That is not a priority. The only way it would be a priority would be if it were close to the end time of the incarnations and the Master Life Plan is being reached and that fragment has then been designed to be part of the Great Teacher. Then yes.
Ralph: Like I am planned to be.
Hope: Of course.
Ralph: Then you would have a different approach. I’m just saying that in everyday reincarnation, it has only its life experiences and waits for its next life to go forward from where it left off.
Hope: That’s all, and when it’s gone through all of its Master Life Plan, it comes to where Becky is and her fragment is over here, and therefore it joins.
Ralph: But the interior life teaching that you do is with the Beckies of each person?
Hope: Yes. That’s the only one that we teach.
Ralph: Now, somebody said that during that time they get to review their previous lives and figure out where they are going to go next.
Hope: The Guardian deals with that aspect, we don’t deal with that.
Ralph: Is this something that the fragment that is Marie would do between lifetimes, or does she become aware of that at all? Is that only what Becky would become aware of?
Hope: The fragment is housed, put away.
Ralph: Does Becky review the past, the series, so she has the whole picture at this point?
Hope: Right.
Ralph: What’s needed next?
Hope: That’s part of the training aspect that we give to the higher functioning Essences when they are going to the in-between times. The first number of times it is just a baby going through a learning process, so it could be 500 lifetimes before we would have the Essence up there reviewing all the past lives to see how the picture fits together, to see what had not been processed, what has been left out and so forth, to make sure the Master Life Plan is finished and completed.
Ralph: To pick up the pieces and make sure the next culture will include these things'?
Hope: Right. This is done on the higher functioning Essences. On Turned Essences, we have to reindoctrinate the avenue of the existence of why they are there. And at that time for their charges, it means even more lifetimes for that Essence to get it correct. And if they choose and refuse to get it correct, then they are given to Charity. [Charity runs another Rehabilitation Center for Turned Essences who will never be reincarnated, such as those guilty of crimes against humanity.]
Ralph: I’ve got one little question. In Marie’s case, we have an Essence, Becky, still separated from Marie. Now, if there was to be a sudden death of her, unplanned of course, and they were not yet reintegrated according to plan, what happens?
Hope: When death is imminent, it would be that Becky and Marie would be joined automatically.
Ralph: That’s what I wondered, because they have to be united for the next lifetime, and I was just – they haven’t gone through any kind of a bonding yet.
Hope: But it would happen immediately. But there is no plan for that.
Ralph: I understand, but I was just thinking theoretically, if you have people who die dissociated .
Hope: It would happen in a matter of just as the body was drawing its last breath.
Ralph: They would be leaving together, so then they could start again as a bonded unit.
Hope: Just as she took her first breath as they entered the body, then the Essence came in at that point in time, and that’s the way the Essence and the personality would become one again.
Ralph: Now, in your school, are they one or do you have two different classes going on? That is sort of separating one and two, but are the Essence or, as the Japanese say, the Risei, and the Kanjou separate?
Hope: The Emotional Self does not exist. The Emotional Self’s body is gone.
Ralph: Whoa, let me get my theory straight then.
Hope: You were talking about the training that Becky has been doing.
Ralph: Let me say again, using English, I’m limited. But if you use the Japanese words, Kanjou is Marie, which we don’t have an English word for.
Hope: Right.
Ralph: And she is the Emotional Part of the package that was born. And Becky is the Risei, the Intellectual part of the package that was born. OK. In ordinary circumstances, they are all one, but now, when they finish this life, under ordinary circumstances, without dissociation, who do you have available to teach?
Hope: We have Becky, and we have the fragment that is Marie.
Ralph: OK, so they start as two different fragments, at two different points in the past.
Hope: Right, but we have a fragment. It is a fragment, it is not an Essence. A fragment would be put on the corner shelf, and Becky is over here getting her instructions. And then when a new body is found, they go back in together.
Ralph: So do you have to conduct any teaching for the fragment that is now Marie?
Hope: No. That is not a priority. The only way it would be a priority would be if it were close to the end time of the incarnations and the Master Life Plan is being reached and that fragment has then been designed to be part of the Great Teacher. Then yes.
Ralph: Like I am planned to be.
Hope: Of course.
Ralph: Then you would have a different approach. I’m just saying that in everyday reincarnation, it has only its life experiences and waits for its next life to go forward from where it left off.
Hope: That’s all, and when it’s gone through all of its Master Life Plan, it comes to where Becky is and her fragment is over here, and therefore it joins.
Ralph: But the interior life teaching that you do is with the Beckies of each person?
Hope: Yes. That’s the only one that we teach.
Ralph: Now, somebody said that during that time they get to review their previous lives and figure out where they are going to go next.
Hope: The Guardian deals with that aspect, we don’t deal with that.
Ralph: Is this something that the fragment that is Marie would do between lifetimes, or does she become aware of that at all? Is that only what Becky would become aware of?
Hope: The fragment is housed, put away.
Ralph: Does Becky review the past, the series, so she has the whole picture at this point?
Hope: Right.
Ralph: What’s needed next?
Hope: That’s part of the training aspect that we give to the higher functioning Essences when they are going to the in-between times. The first number of times it is just a baby going through a learning process, so it could be 500 lifetimes before we would have the Essence up there reviewing all the past lives to see how the picture fits together, to see what had not been processed, what has been left out and so forth, to make sure the Master Life Plan is finished and completed.
Ralph: To pick up the pieces and make sure the next culture will include these things'?
Hope: Right. This is done on the higher functioning Essences. On Turned Essences, we have to reindoctrinate the avenue of the existence of why they are there. And at that time for their charges, it means even more lifetimes for that Essence to get it correct. And if they choose and refuse to get it correct, then they are given to Charity. [Charity runs another Rehabilitation Center for Turned Essences who will never be reincarnated, such as those guilty of crimes against humanity.]
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